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Interview: Alex von Tunzelmann

Posted Monday 2nd April 2012, 14:27

Alex von TunzelmannThe author of Red Heat: Conspiracy, Murder and the Cold War in the Caribbean discusses her work with Paul Lay.

You have chosen to integrate Cuba’s recent history with that of its neighbours: Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Can you tell us what attracted you to that framework?

Cuba, Haiti and the Dominican Republic were the three major independent nations in the Caribbean. All of them had to play a game with their powerful neighbour. They depended on the US for trade and aid, but were fearful for their sovereignty if they let the Americans get too close. There’s the familiar story of ‘13 days’ of the Cuban missile crisis, which many accounts locate almost entirely in the White House. When I panned out from that and looked at what was going on in Haiti and the Dominican Republic, as well as Cuba throughout the 1950s and 1960s, it became this vivid story; full of freewheeling mercenaries, fake terrorist plots, Mafia hits, exploding planes and cigars, even an army of zombies.

On top of that there was a strong story about how Caribbean leaders had done their best to manipulate the US using its fear of Communism in the region, often with great success. At the same time, genuine liberation or prodemocracy movements had been stifled. It was an important story that had a resonance with current events, particularly the War on Terror.

It seems, at first, that Castro was keen to have an amicable relationship with the US. What went wrong?

There’s evidence that he did want friendship, or at least peaceful coexistence. There was some enthusiasm for him inside the US embassy in Havana and in the State Department. Things went wrong soon after his victory in 1959 for two reasons. First, Castro resisted any attempts to control him or even persuade him to more moderate courses of action. For example, he carried out public executions of hate figures of the former regime. Second, there was a campaign of terrorism and sabotage against his government which he blamed on the CIA. A ship carrying small arms blew up in Havana harbour in March 1960. It may have been an accident, but Castro saw it as a declaration of war by the US and that pushed him into a relationship with the Soviet Union.

Castro seems an almost benign figure in comparison with his fellow dictators, François Duvalier of Haiti and Rafael Trujillo of the Dominican Republic. Did anyone in the US government have any qualms about their behaviour?

Yes. The striking and sad thing about reading the State Department archives from these years is that the US had plenty of perceptive people, both on the ground in those countries and in Washington, many of whom objected to US support for despots. But they just weren’t listened to because – and this was true under Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson – the primary fixation was with stopping Communism.

So, for instance, in 1961 the well-informed former diplomat Adolf Berle argued for regime change in Haiti, not Cuba. That was justifiable. There was widespread popular unrest against the government in Haiti. Some of Duvalier’s close associates, including his doctor, had gone to US officials to warn them that he was insane and was torturing and murdering his opponents. But Berle was thought ‘out of touch’.

How did US activities in the Caribbean affect later military ventures such as those in Vietnam and the Middle East?

Very literally, because the US Marine Corps Small Wars Manual, used in Vietnam, was written on the strength of experience in the Caribbean. The most influential operation was Lyndon Johnson’s Operation Power Pack, a massive intervention in the Dominican Republic in 1965 aimed at averting a Communist revolution. Johnson had the CIA scour the Dominican Republic for Castro-trained guerrillas, but they could only find eight of them in a population of four million. At that time many critics spoke against Power Pack and the Vietnam War in the same breath.

The events you deal with in Red Heat have until recently been viewed as current affairs. Yet for you, who wasn’t even born at the time, they are history. How does that affect our perspectives?

These events took place 50 years ago. US government papers are usually declassified after 30 years and for a political historian those papers create a real sense of what was going on. Some historians work even closer to events than I do. If I relied primarily on interviews, I’d already be too late. Almost everyone of importance in the book is dead, except for Fidel and Raúl Castro.

If I am lucky enough to live to a grand old age, I’ll be thrilled to read the histories that a generation not even born yet will write about the events of today: the Bush-Blair relationship; the pursuit and assassination of Osama bin Laden; the British intervention in Libya. Current events turn up new questions all the time. Sometimes these questions can only be answered from the perspective of history.

Interview: David Waller

Posted Wednesday 1st February 2012, 10:02

David Waller

Paul Lay speaks to David Waller, author of The Magnificent Mrs Tennant: The Adventurous Life of Gertrude Tennant, Victorian Grande Dame.

What inspired you to write a book about Mrs Tennant, she is a little-known figure?

It all started with a visit to a farmhouse in Surrey one dark, wet Sunday afternoon some six years ago. As I describe in the opening pages of the book, I had been invited down to have a look at some family papers that had been sitting undisturbed in the attic of the house for at least half a century. My friend and I pushed our way through the usual attic clutter – old record players, bicycles etc – to two large old chests. We opened them and found a huge stash of documents – diaries, literally thousands of letters, some of them dating back to the early 19th century, books, newspapers, personal mementos. Some of the bundles were labelled and I pulled one out and read: ‘Letters from Distinguished Persons, Do not Throw Away.’ I undid the bundle. There were letters from Oscar Wilde, Henry James, Gladstone, Disraeli, Balfour, Rodin, Watts, Browning, George Eliot, Henry Morton Stanley and other luminaries of late 19th-century European literary, artistic and political life. I knew immediately that I was on to something. The letters were addressed to Gertrude Tennant née Collier. There were also presentation copies of Madame Bovary, Salammbo and Trois Contes, each with an inscription from Gustave Flaubert to Gertrude. On a subsequent visit I found 24 letters from Flaubert to Mrs Tennant. It wasn’t clear at the outset precisely what or who my book would be about but I knew this was a rare find and it was my challenge to track down as much as possible about Mrs Tennant and her milieu.

How did you research the book?

The first task was to make sense of all the primary sources – the diaries and the personal letters and also the various lightly fictionalised accounts of my subject’s youthful encounters with Flaubert. At the same time I was looking through all the published sources, chiefly the biographies of Flaubert, which typically mentioned Gertrude in passing – and of Henry Morton Stanley, the great explorer who became Gertrude’s son-in-law. I soon discovered that Stanley, the man who traversed Africa several times, was afraid of only one human being in the world and that was his mother-in-law. Gertrude figures as something of a footnote in his life as well. My challenge was to put her in the foreground and to fashion an ‘intimate history’ of a woman who lived to be nearly 100 years old, from 1819 to 1918, living through a century of extraordinary social change and who knew so many of the major figures of the time. I found it striking that she lost six uncles in the Napoleonic wars and also a grandson in the First World War.

How did Mrs Tennant become this extraordinary society hostess?

After she was widowed in her early fifties, she was left alone with her children in a large house in Richmond Terrace, Whitehall. For the first time in her life she was rich and independent. She deployed both her money and her charm to turn the house into the kind of ‘salon’ she had frequented while growing up in Paris in the 1830s and 1840s. Gertrude’s daughter Dolly, painted by Millais and Watts, was very beautiful and entertaining and I’m sure many of the men who frequented the salon were captivated by her as well. Certainly it seems that Dolly had love affairs with the cabinet minister Sir George Trevelyan, as well as Andrew Carnegie, the industrialist, before she settled down with Stanley in 1890.

Tell us something about the extraordinary range of characters that became part of Mrs Tennant’s circle.

Probably the most important relationship was with Gustave Flaubert. They met at the beachside resort of Trouville in the summer of 1842, when Gertrude was 22 and Flaubert 20. Flaubert was an unhappy law student with aspirations to become a writer; Gertrude was an intelligent young woman of marriageable age. They forged an intense friendship and when they returned to Paris the young Flaubert became a regular guest at the Collier family apartment on the Champs Élysées. Gertrude left a poignant memoir of this time, including the circumstances of the death of Flaubert’s sister, Caroline, in 1846. Shortly thereafter Gertrude and family returned to England. Flaubert sent her a copy of Madame Bovary when it was first published in 1857: she wrote back, saying she detested it: how could he have squandered his talent? Flaubert seems to have been delighted with this response and they corresponded thereafter. In 1878, two years before Flaubert’s death, they were reunited in Paris, a meeting that prompted a flow of letters from Flaubert to Gertrude. Some of these were published in the 1890s, but around a dozen are printed for the first time in my book. In the 1880s the Richmond Terrace salon attracted a ‘high Bohemian’ crowd. Ned Burne-Jones turned up with his young nephew, who spent time writing stories about Dolly’s pets: the nephew was Rudyard Kipling. Wilde came along with Ruskin. In the 1890s guests included Mark Twain, Lord Kitchener and Alphonse Daudet, the French novelist.

How did you structure the book?

Her life fell into three unequal sections: her youth in raffish, expatriate society in Paris; a respectable quarter of a century as a wife, mother and all round 19th-century domestic goddess and then nearly 50 years as an increasingly grande dame.

What kind of reception did the book receive?

There were some very nice reviews. Among ordinary readers, women tended to love the book especially women of my mother’s age i.e. in their seventies. I’d love to think that was attributable to my enormous sensitivity as a writer, but actually Gertrude’s life story provides an unusual female vantage point on a whole century of social history. It is a narrative about coming to terms with the limitations of a woman’s position in 19th-century society.

What else are you working on?

I am working on the second draft of a screenplay of Mrs Tennant: the challenge is to capture the broad historical sweep while preserving the human drama of Gertrude’s key relationships, particularly with Flaubert. My life of Eugen Sandow (1867-1925), the Victorian strongman has also just been published (The Perfect Man: The Muscular Life and Times of Eugen Sandow, published by Victorian Secrets, was reviewed in the January issue of HT). Sandow is a very different subject from Gertrude Tennant, but they did meet. In 1897 Sandow opened his Institute of Physical Culture in St James’s and when Gertrude fell down the stairs and broke her arm, she went to visit him for treatment. I don’t think she ever invited him to her salon, however.

The Magnificent Mrs Tennant is out now in paperback.

Interview: Lucy Worsley

Posted Monday 9th January 2012, 9:30

Lucy Worsley; photo by Stuart ClarkeThe author of Courtiers: The Secret History of Kensington Palace (Faber & Faber), and presenter of the BBC TV series, If Walls Could Talk: An Intimate History of the Home discusses her work with Paul Lay.

What inspired you to write Courtiers?

I work as the chief curator at Kensington Palace and would often find myself walking up the King’s Grand Staircase there and wondering about the identities of the 45 people painted on its walls. William Kent in the 1720s decorated the staircase with a group portrait of servants from the lower ranks of the royal household. I used to hear all sorts of conflicting stories about who was who and finally decided to work it out as definitively as possible. Four years later, the result was Courtiers.

The King’s Grand Staircase boasts an extraordinary cast of characters, crossing class boundaries. How did you go about researching the lives of the more obscure?  

Well, even if the duties of royal servants are menial and their official status low, they can still sometimes wield enormous power. Take Muhammad, for example, George I’s Turkish valet. He helped the king to dress – he even treated the royal haemorrhoids – and because of his access he was said to be as important as a government minister. Consequently he appears often in the written sources, had his portrait painted, even left his own memoirs. Others were harder to track down, but that’s the kind of challenge I like, restoring minor figures who’ve been neglected from the official story.

This was a time of relative decline in the power of the Crown. Yet George I and George II still wielded political power. How did this manifest itself?

Of course the main event in political history in the 18th century is the rise of Parliament. But George I and George II still had the ultimate power of appointing their ministers. Although German, they and particularly Queen Caroline were much more engaged with British culture (and spoke English better) than many people assume today. So politicians continued to put in the hours necessary to succeed at court, where their status was expressed through the seemingly trivial details of seating, dress and body language.

Among the most extraordinary characters is Peter the Wild Boy. Can you tell us about him and how much can be said for certain about his life?

Peter the Wild Boy was a feral child discovered all alone in the woods near Hanover. He was brought to court as a kind of pet, never learnt to speak and was, and is, a bit of a mystery. His lonely life and the cruelty with which he was treated are very moving. His distinctive facial features have convinced modern doctors that he was suffering from Pitt-Hopkins Syndrome, an autistic condition with learning difficulties. Georgian London became obsessed with solving the riddle of who Peter was. The big brains of the Enlightenment used him to ask big questions: ‘Is this boy an animal? If he has no speech, does he have a soul? What does it mean to be a human being?’

The structure of Courtiers is a complex one. How did you arrive at it and do you always have a wider public in mind?

My main job as a curator is to try to get people interested in history, to visit our palaces, to enjoy themselves, and to learn something, too. I try to do the same with my books, to entertain as well as to inform. I imagined Courtiers as the kind of history you can lose yourself in, the sort of book I myself like to devour while on holiday. The structure of a group biography is always tricky, so I planned it all out with a big chart. I also found Robert McKee’s principles of storytelling really helpful and as relevant to history as fiction.

You have a job that many people would envy. Tell us about a typical day at the Historic Royal Palaces, if there is such a thing? And what projects are you working on now?

The other day I was poking around at Hampton Court, which also comes under our remit, trying to work out the exact route a royal mistress would have taken to pay a private visit to the king and a colleague and I happened to discuss how lucky we are to get paid for spending our time like this! As curators we devise new exhibitions, make acquisitions to the collection, carry out research, of course, and constantly talk to people about what we’ve discovered (whether through guided tours or on television). At the moment we’re putting the final touches to the new displays at Kensington Palace and I’m filming a BBC series about the mistresses of Charles II.    

Interview: Rachel Hewitt

Posted Thursday 1st December 2011, 15:30

Rachel HewettOur Book Club recommendation for December is Map of a Nation: A Biography of the Ordnance Survey by Rachel Hewitt. Here the author discusses her work with Paul Lay.

What inspired you to write a book on maps? Tell us about the state of cartographical history.

As an enthusiastic hiker I’ve had a long-standing appreciation and love for Ordnance Survey maps. I remember being taught to map-read and navigate by my stepfather and the ability to translate the squiggles and numbers on the map into an imaginary picture of landscape was a real revelation to me. But, although that love of maps had been there for many years, my intellectual interest in the Ordnance Survey dates a little later from the end of my undergraduate degree in English literature. I’d developed a real love of Romantic landscape poetry. Then I discovered that the OS was founded in 1791, right at the beginning of the Romantic period. It seemed resonant that, at the precise moment that poets such as Wordsworth were metaphorically remapping the British landscape through poetry, that territory was being literally remapped by the OS. I wanted to investigate further, not only how those first maps were made, and why, but what sort of cultural impact the OS’s activities had.

Cartographical history is a wonderfully vibrant area. It benefits hugely from its hybrid nature: researchers come to map history from all sorts of backgrounds – from social and cultural history, from military history, from art history and literature and from non-academic areas too. This brings a real freshness to its methodology.

Who is the book aimed at?

I really hoped it would appeal to a wide range of readers: to those who, like me, love the OS primarily for its iconic folded maps and its association with rambling; but also to those who are interested in the history and culture of the French Revolutionary period and the Industrial Revolution. I really wanted to embed the OS in its historical and cultural context. The book is as much about national identity, the formation of the United Kingdom and the culture of patriotism as it is about copper-plate engraving, brass theodolites and triangulation. I hope it appeals to a general history readership as well as more specialised cartographic historians.

How did you research the book?

I started working on Map of a Nation after completing a PhD in Romantic landscape poetry and mapping, so a lot of my research for the book was able to springboard from that. But whereas my doctoral research was more concerned with general ideas of ‘mapping’ in the 18th century, the research for the book was more focused on specificities: the archives of the OS, their instruments, and methods, for example. I also wanted to attempt to bring to life the characters involved in the early OS: to try to piece together their backgrounds, obsessions and motivations. That was why the book has the subtitle A Biography of the Ordnance Survey: I wanted to tell the life of the institution through the lives of its most important personalities.

What does a map tell us about a nation and its people?

A national map is often an image of a particular conception of that nation. A wonderful book by Richard Helgerson, Forms of Nationhood (1992), shows how, as Britain became more democratic, its maps changed to reflect that fact: coats-of-arms of local aristocrats, or even the monarch, were gradually displaced by images of the land itself. The period of Map of a Nation is the period of the birth of the United Kingdom and takes in the 1707 Anglo-Scottish Union and the 1801 Act of Union with Ireland. I was interested in how conceptions of national identity changed during that period and the role that maps played in cementing an idea of a united kingdom. For some, the OS – which mapped England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland – was an image of a happily united nation. Wordsworth used the OS in a poem as an icon of what he called ‘Britain’s calm felicity and power’.

What about the people you write about in your book?

The OS was established as a military survey and its chief personnel in its early years operated within a military context. They were mostly taken from the Engineering Corps or the Royal Regiment of Artillery. But I was struck by the way in which its directors were guided by motives that went far beyond military ones. The OS’s first real director was a man called William Mudge, who was descended from a remarkable Enlightenment family and numbered the portrait painter Joshua Reynolds, the actor David Garrick and the playwright Oliver Goldsmith among his family friends. This immersion in Enlightenment culture gave Mudge an expansive sense of the possibilities of the OS: he was intent on it becoming a national mapping agency, with responsibility to present British citizens with the first complete, accurate and up-to-date map of their nation. He always conceived of it as more than a military survey.

Interview: Simon Sebag Montefiore

Posted Thursday 20th October 2011, 11:20

Simon Sebag MontefioreThe History Today Book Club Recommendation for November is Jerusalem: The Biography by Simon Sebag Montefiore. Here the author discusses his work with Paul Lay.

Having written widely on Russia and the former Soviet Union, including acclaimed biographies of Stalin and Catherine the Great, what made you embark on a history of Jerusalem?

Surprisingly there are virtually no full histories of Jerusalem. There are lots of books on the Israel-Palestine conflict and the Crusades but the only full one in print is Karen Armstrong’s book, Jerusalem: One City, Three Faiths (1997). It is an excellent book, but it is a history of the theologies of Jerusalem. I thought we needed a complete history of the city, all its sects, all its characters, all the literature, the religions, the architecture. I wanted to write the history of the city in a new way – not just about the religions, the empires, the buildings, but through the people who made it. Hence it is called ‘the biography’. The history of Jerusalem is, in many ways, the history of the world and so this is a hugely ambitious book. But I have worked very hard to make it accessible to everyone, all readers.You can read it as a study of faith, empire, identity, or you can also read it as a blood-spattered and scandalous saga, an entertainment starring all the greatest characters of world history from Churchill and Caligula to King David and Barack Obama. The task of researching and writing it almost killed me.

Jerusalem is the most contested city in the world. Were you concerned about the reaction the book might provoke?

Yes and it was very stressful dealing with that. I had to get it right: my aim was firstly to be totally unbiased and impartial between Israelis, Palestinians and all the other peoples and sects, too, from Protestants to Armenians to Ethiopians. Then it had to be both academically correct and sound but also readable by anyone who is interested in the excitement of the greatest story ever told or who enjoys a saga or who is interested in how the Middle East developed to the present day, with the Arab Spring, the truth about the Israel-Palestine conflict, all of that. I hope it is all here, but you can see why I was so stressed. I barely slept for three years thinking about it. I am very relieved that it is written and finished and out.

How did you research the book?

The usual way. By reading primary sources, academic research, scholarly debate, discussions with scholars and politicians, visits to many places in Jerusalem and archaeological digs.

You draw on your family’s own papers? What is your connection to Jerusalem and what did those papers reveal?

My great, great uncle Sir Moses Montefiore, a Victorian baronet and philanthropist, was a fascianting character. In 1860 he built the Montefiore Cottages and Windmill, the first suburb outside Jerusalem’s city walls which, along with the Arab suburbs built soon afterwards, became the new modern city. I looked at his materials and others, too, from within the family and they are in the book and very interesting. In 1917, for example, some Montefiores suppported the Balfour Declaration, while others campaigned against it. And the Montefiore connection has lasted up to today. I have been visiting the city since my childhood and our family motto is simply ‘JERUSALEM’.

You make the point that Jerusalem is two cities: one on earth, one in heaven. How does one write the history of a heavenly city?

Good question. Any history of this place is both mythology and vision and facts. As a historian I am interested in the facts but the myths have also helped create the facts, so this has to be a history of both. The mythology includes the faith and that involves the heavenly city that is ever present in this book, as real and as vivid in its way as the stones of the actual city. But, as you suggest, everything about this book was hard to write and research and get right. It is definitely the greatest challenge of my professional career.

What do you mean when you say that ‘the story of Jerusalem is the story of the world’?

Jerusalem is the centre of world history, the desire of every great empire, the venue for where God meets man, the prize and fascination of so many titans of world history, its destiny so often decided far away, in Moscow or Manhattan or London. In Byzantine and Crusader times it was believed to be the actual centre of the world and today it is again central to all the great world conflicts and issues. That is why its history remains so important, so exciting and so essential to our understanding of the world.


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